<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Halachot of Dogs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/</link>
	<description>Moving UP in the World</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:02:39 +0200</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Yaakov</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-66776</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-66776</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your sentiments, but &quot;There is nothing more holy than the love of a dog&quot;?? How about the love of HKBH for Am Yisrael, the love between a husband and wife, between parent and child? I am sorry that you find the Torah, Gemara and Shulchan Aruch to all be sorely misguided on the topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your sentiments, but &#8220;There is nothing more holy than the love of a dog&#8221;?? How about the love of HKBH for Am Yisrael, the love between a husband and wife, between parent and child? I am sorry that you find the Torah, Gemara and Shulchan Aruch to all be sorely misguided on the topic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Talia</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-66676</link>
		<dc:creator>Talia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 23:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-66676</guid>
		<description>This an old post, but to whoever comes across it, I have only this to say:  There is nothing more holy than the love of a dog.  A dog that loves its caretaker exhibits all the qualities and middot that humans so often woefully lack---love, cheerfulness,  forgiveness and above all, loyalty.  Any rabbinic commentary representing dogs any other way is sorely misguided.  A dog mistreated by humans is rendered &quot;evil,&quot; as any human being would become upon being abused.  A dog given love and properly cared for will become gentle, friendly and loving.  I know.  I have raised dogs my entire life.

The hebrew word for dog is &quot;celev,&quot; which can also be pronounced &quot;calev,&quot; (as a heart).  Nothing more fittingly describes this  beautiful creature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This an old post, but to whoever comes across it, I have only this to say:  There is nothing more holy than the love of a dog.  A dog that loves its caretaker exhibits all the qualities and middot that humans so often woefully lack&#8212;love, cheerfulness,  forgiveness and above all, loyalty.  Any rabbinic commentary representing dogs any other way is sorely misguided.  A dog mistreated by humans is rendered &#8220;evil,&#8221; as any human being would become upon being abused.  A dog given love and properly cared for will become gentle, friendly and loving.  I know.  I have raised dogs my entire life.</p>
<p>The hebrew word for dog is &#8220;celev,&#8221; which can also be pronounced &#8220;calev,&#8221; (as a heart).  Nothing more fittingly describes this  beautiful creature.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ingrid</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44894</link>
		<dc:creator>ingrid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44894</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H

very entering pilpul; thank you gentlemen.
i learned a halacha that if one&#039;s already made the bracha on hamotzi and then realizes that the dog&#039;s not yet been fed, s/he should first feed the dog and then eat the bread. interesting...
Shabbat Shalom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H</p>
<p>very entering pilpul; thank you gentlemen.<br />
i learned a halacha that if one&#8217;s already made the bracha on hamotzi and then realizes that the dog&#8217;s not yet been fed, s/he should first feed the dog and then eat the bread. interesting&#8230;<br />
Shabbat Shalom</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yaakov</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44766</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44766</guid>
		<description>Eli - Thanks for your comments.

&lt;em&gt;By this logic, lions, bears, wolves, and the average gentile are also “the opposite of something Holy”.&lt;/em&gt;. The &quot;average gentile&quot; I can understand, but where do you get lions, bears and wolves from?

I don&#039;t think that the Rama and the Maharshal are in disagreement. The Maharshal is simply defining the term &lt;em&gt;kelev ra&lt;/em&gt;. In your case, where you are getting the dog as protection from intruders, it seems pretty straightforward that according to both the Shulchan Aruch and the Rama there is no problem with your dog (who would be classified as a &lt;em&gt;kelev ra&lt;/em&gt; by the Maharshal) in your situation (where you have it for protection), provided that it is restrained during the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli &#8211; Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p><em>By this logic, lions, bears, wolves, and the average gentile are also “the opposite of something Holy”.</em>. The &#8220;average gentile&#8221; I can understand, but where do you get lions, bears and wolves from?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that the Rama and the Maharshal are in disagreement. The Maharshal is simply defining the term <em>kelev ra</em>. In your case, where you are getting the dog as protection from intruders, it seems pretty straightforward that according to both the Shulchan Aruch and the Rama there is no problem with your dog (who would be classified as a <em>kelev ra</em> by the Maharshal) in your situation (where you have it for protection), provided that it is restrained during the day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44765</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44765</guid>
		<description>retraction:
re. translating &quot;Ra&quot; as evil, I see that Rabbi Jachter also translates the term &quot;Kelev Ra&quot; as &quot;Evil Dog&quot; not &quot;Bad Dog&quot;, so perhaps you are right, and it is supposed to be translated that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>retraction:<br />
re. translating &#8220;Ra&#8221; as evil, I see that Rabbi Jachter also translates the term &#8220;Kelev Ra&#8221; as &#8220;Evil Dog&#8221; not &#8220;Bad Dog&#8221;, so perhaps you are right, and it is supposed to be translated that way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44764</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44764</guid>
		<description>&quot;However, the dog is also labeled here as the an animal that thrives on the very substances that would distance a Jew from God.&quot;
Your proof from this posuk, seems to be a it of a stretch. By this logic, lions, bears, wolves, and the average gentile are also &quot;the opposite of something Holy&quot;.
According to Rashi, the reason the Torah singled out the dog, is not because it is unholy, but as a &quot;hakarat hatov&quot; for the dogs not barking in Egypt when the Jews left.

That being said, you don&#039;t have to agree with Rashi, everyone is free to interpret the pasuk as the wish, I was merely pointing out that it appears that the rabbi (or you) have a strong bias here.

re. #5: The bias shows through here clearly, the term &quot;Ra&quot; can be translated as both bad, and evil, usually based on the context. By choosing to translate the word as &quot;evil&quot; you are showing a strong bias. once again, its your right, but i wanted to let you know it feels biased.
as an aside, we got our dog specifically b/c he barks when strangers knock on the door,as a security measure. We were told be the security officer of KaBat of a large Yishuv, that a lot of times intruders (Arabs) will be deterred from breaking into a house if they hear a dog. So I guess in this case we (I) hold like the Rama, not like the Maharshal.

re #6: this too, is a misleading argument. Not all dog owners get their dog because &quot;a dog is man’s best friend&quot; so it is irrelevant who said it or if it is a &quot;Jewish value&quot;. A person gets a dog for specific reasons, companionship, therapy, safety, not because of a Jewish value. If the dog is overall conducive to making their life better/happier/healthier, then it is a &quot;jewish value&quot; (as long as they own the dog, and take care of it, according to halacha).

re: the frum world&#039;s reason for frowning upon dog ownership. I am not &quot;claiming&quot; anything, this is my own theory/opinion, based on personal experience.

Please understand, I have no problem with you having an &quot;anti dog&quot; opinion, I just don&#039;t like arguments that feel stretched or contrived.

The best argument I have heard against owning a dog is simply: I
t is not easy to own a dog according to halacha (shabbat, spaying/neutering/ tzaar baalei chaim, etc.) why would you want that headache (and the chance of transgressong a halacha)?

BTW, thanks for the link to the article on the Halachic perspective on pets, I found it really useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, the dog is also labeled here as the an animal that thrives on the very substances that would distance a Jew from God.&#8221;<br />
Your proof from this posuk, seems to be a it of a stretch. By this logic, lions, bears, wolves, and the average gentile are also &#8220;the opposite of something Holy&#8221;.<br />
According to Rashi, the reason the Torah singled out the dog, is not because it is unholy, but as a &#8220;hakarat hatov&#8221; for the dogs not barking in Egypt when the Jews left.</p>
<p>That being said, you don&#8217;t have to agree with Rashi, everyone is free to interpret the pasuk as the wish, I was merely pointing out that it appears that the rabbi (or you) have a strong bias here.</p>
<p>re. #5: The bias shows through here clearly, the term &#8220;Ra&#8221; can be translated as both bad, and evil, usually based on the context. By choosing to translate the word as &#8220;evil&#8221; you are showing a strong bias. once again, its your right, but i wanted to let you know it feels biased.<br />
as an aside, we got our dog specifically b/c he barks when strangers knock on the door,as a security measure. We were told be the security officer of KaBat of a large Yishuv, that a lot of times intruders (Arabs) will be deterred from breaking into a house if they hear a dog. So I guess in this case we (I) hold like the Rama, not like the Maharshal.</p>
<p>re #6: this too, is a misleading argument. Not all dog owners get their dog because &#8220;a dog is man’s best friend&#8221; so it is irrelevant who said it or if it is a &#8220;Jewish value&#8221;. A person gets a dog for specific reasons, companionship, therapy, safety, not because of a Jewish value. If the dog is overall conducive to making their life better/happier/healthier, then it is a &#8220;jewish value&#8221; (as long as they own the dog, and take care of it, according to halacha).</p>
<p>re: the frum world&#8217;s reason for frowning upon dog ownership. I am not &#8220;claiming&#8221; anything, this is my own theory/opinion, based on personal experience.</p>
<p>Please understand, I have no problem with you having an &#8220;anti dog&#8221; opinion, I just don&#8217;t like arguments that feel stretched or contrived.</p>
<p>The best argument I have heard against owning a dog is simply: I<br />
t is not easy to own a dog according to halacha (shabbat, spaying/neutering/ tzaar baalei chaim, etc.) why would you want that headache (and the chance of transgressong a halacha)?</p>
<p>BTW, thanks for the link to the article on the Halachic perspective on pets, I found it really useful.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yaakov</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44762</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44762</guid>
		<description>eric -

His name is Calev, not Kelev. The vowels change the meaning of the word. His name does not mean dog, despite the fact that it has the same spelling. 

I looked around a bit and was not able to find anyone who made this connection. Do you have a source for this claim?

Additionally, even if your claim that &quot;ancient Jews recognized and valued dogs&#039; loyalty&quot;, so what? The Torah still makes the connection of a dog to anti-holiness, the Gemara still makes its statements critical of dog ownership, and halacha still says what it does. Even if a dog can have a redeeming quality, if it can be classified as a &lt;em&gt;kelev ra&lt;/em&gt; then it is to be treated as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric -</p>
<p>His name is Calev, not Kelev. The vowels change the meaning of the word. His name does not mean dog, despite the fact that it has the same spelling. </p>
<p>I looked around a bit and was not able to find anyone who made this connection. Do you have a source for this claim?</p>
<p>Additionally, even if your claim that &#8220;ancient Jews recognized and valued dogs&#8217; loyalty&#8221;, so what? The Torah still makes the connection of a dog to anti-holiness, the Gemara still makes its statements critical of dog ownership, and halacha still says what it does. Even if a dog can have a redeeming quality, if it can be classified as a <em>kelev ra</em> then it is to be treated as such.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eric</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44759</link>
		<dc:creator>eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44759</guid>
		<description>&quot;3) Do you have anything to back up your claim that the frum world frowning on dog ownership is only because of “bad experiences” with dogs, and is not at all founded on the words of Chazal? What do you think about #6 above?&quot;

Kalev ben Yefuneh&#039;s very name means dog - that seems like a Jewish source to me. Most likely the reason for his name is that ancient Jews recognized and valued dogs&#039; loyalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;3) Do you have anything to back up your claim that the frum world frowning on dog ownership is only because of “bad experiences” with dogs, and is not at all founded on the words of Chazal? What do you think about #6 above?&#8221;</p>
<p>Kalev ben Yefuneh&#8217;s very name means dog &#8211; that seems like a Jewish source to me. Most likely the reason for his name is that ancient Jews recognized and valued dogs&#8217; loyalty.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yaakov</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44747</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44747</guid>
		<description>Eli: 

1) The first four words of the passuk are of utmost importance (see #1 in the post above). Jews are suppossed to be Holy people. Therefore, we don&#039;t eat meat that is &lt;em&gt;neveila&lt;/em&gt; or &lt;em&gt;treifa&lt;/em&gt;, as these are items that are diametrically opposed to the concept of being Holy. We want to therefore get rid of these items. So where do we throw them? To the dogs. True, you can say that a dog is the recommended disposal unit for treif meat (especially since dogs will probably not leave any behind). However, the dog is also labeled here as the an animal that thrives on the very substances that would distance a Jew from God.

2) See #5 in the post above for analysis of the term &lt;em&gt;Kelev Ra&lt;/em&gt;. I never said that it applies to all dogs. However, even if it is limited to all dogs that bite or bark in a way that can be frightening to anyone, it is still pretty inclusive.

3) Do you have anything to back up your claim that the frum world frowning on dog ownership is only because of &quot;bad experiences&quot; with dogs, and is not at all founded on the words of Chazal? What do you think about #6 above?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli: </p>
<p>1) The first four words of the passuk are of utmost importance (see #1 in the post above). Jews are suppossed to be Holy people. Therefore, we don&#8217;t eat meat that is <em>neveila</em> or <em>treifa</em>, as these are items that are diametrically opposed to the concept of being Holy. We want to therefore get rid of these items. So where do we throw them? To the dogs. True, you can say that a dog is the recommended disposal unit for treif meat (especially since dogs will probably not leave any behind). However, the dog is also labeled here as the an animal that thrives on the very substances that would distance a Jew from God.</p>
<p>2) See #5 in the post above for analysis of the term <em>Kelev Ra</em>. I never said that it applies to all dogs. However, even if it is limited to all dogs that bite or bark in a way that can be frightening to anyone, it is still pretty inclusive.</p>
<p>3) Do you have anything to back up your claim that the frum world frowning on dog ownership is only because of &#8220;bad experiences&#8221; with dogs, and is not at all founded on the words of Chazal? What do you think about #6 above?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eli</title>
		<link>http://aliyahblog.com/2008/05/15/the-halachot-of-dogs/comment-page-1/#comment-44746</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aliyahblog.com/?p=390#comment-44746</guid>
		<description>Yaakov, it seems you have a pretty one sided view of dog ownership.
(full disclosure: I am a frum jew and I own a dog)
Jabbett&#039;s point is not necessarily tounge in cheek. we see that the torah assumes people own dogs, and sees them as a good way of disposing treif meat.
The gemara also repeatedly uses the term &quot;Kelev Ra&quot; a bad dog, i.e. one that bites or barks, and not all dogs. 
It seems like the rabbi who was giving the drasha had a very one sided view and was trying to bring &quot;raayas&quot; to his view. I don&#039;t thin the torah&#039;s stance in unequivocally anti dog ownership.
I know that in todays frum world dog ownership is frowned upon, but i think it comes from a sort of &quot;collective bad experience&quot; with dogs in Europe, (the nazis, progroms, gentile neighbors sicing their dogs on jews etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yaakov, it seems you have a pretty one sided view of dog ownership.<br />
(full disclosure: I am a frum jew and I own a dog)<br />
Jabbett&#8217;s point is not necessarily tounge in cheek. we see that the torah assumes people own dogs, and sees them as a good way of disposing treif meat.<br />
The gemara also repeatedly uses the term &#8220;Kelev Ra&#8221; a bad dog, i.e. one that bites or barks, and not all dogs.<br />
It seems like the rabbi who was giving the drasha had a very one sided view and was trying to bring &#8220;raayas&#8221; to his view. I don&#8217;t thin the torah&#8217;s stance in unequivocally anti dog ownership.<br />
I know that in todays frum world dog ownership is frowned upon, but i think it comes from a sort of &#8220;collective bad experience&#8221; with dogs in Europe, (the nazis, progroms, gentile neighbors sicing their dogs on jews etc.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
